Letters/Discussion Forums
A man of remarkable humilty and integrity
ANDREW FEINSTEIN
This submission was sent in response to AN OPEN LETTER by Ariel Ziv to Ahmed Kathrada published on 30 April. Nine users posted comments to the letter.
Amidst the confused and contradictory thinking lies an appalling attack on one of South Africa’s most courageous individuals, with lots of integrity.
Kathrada has dedicated his life to the cause of freedom, justice and equality and the struggle against racism, ethnocentrism and any other form of discrimination.
He has done so with enormous courage, honesty and commitment, alongside his comrades Nelson Mandela, Joe Slovo, Walter Sisulu and Denis Goldberg, among many others.
Personally, I have known Kathrada for many years, both professionally and personally. I have always been struck by his remarkable humility, his lack of anger or antagonism towards those who imprisoned him and his colleagues for so many years and his deep and unwavering sense of fairness.
He has called out injustice wherever he has seen it, regardless of the might and power of those committing it.
And this is the key to his criticism of Israel: For it is not just possible, but perfectly logical and, I would argue, principled, to expose, criticise and oppose in the strongest possible terms, human rights abuses committed by the Israeli state, particularly in relation to the unacceptable occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
No person of conscience who has fought against the racist evils of apartheid and Nazism, could be anything but highly critical of the Israeli occupation of these territories.
In fact, this point was best made by Irena Klepfisz, a child survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto, who wrote: “I have concluded that one way to pay tribute to those we loved, who struggled, resisted and died, is to hold onto their fierce outrage at the destruction of the ordinary life of their people.
It is this outrage we need to keep alive in our daily life and apply it to all situations whether they involve Jews or non-Jews.
“It is this outrage we must use to fuel our actions and vision whenever we see signs of the disruptions of common life: the hysteria of a mother grieving for the teenager who has been shot; a family stunned in front of a vandalised or demolished home; a family, separated, displaced; arbitrary and unjust laws that demand the closing and opening of shops and schools; humiliation of a people whose culture is alien and deemed inferior; a people left homeless without citizenship; a people living under military rule.
“Because of our experience, we recognise these evils as obstacles to peace. At these moments of recognition, we remember the past, feel the outrage that inspired the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto and allow it to guide us in present struggles.”
It is in this spirit that I praise and honour the integrity and commitment of Ahmed Kathrada’s continuing life’s work.
London
Some One
May 21, 2014 at 7:44 pm
‘\”Scurrilous?! \” Ariel Ziv’s letter is \”scurrilous\”?!
The only scurrilous element in this exchange are the mental contortions that the Kathrada sycophants employ to support the homicidal Palestinians.
Perhaps they should read the Fateh Constitution and the Palestinian National Charter. Neither of these documents has been unequivocally rescinded and both remain in force to this day.
——–
Fateh Constitution:
Article (12): Complete liberation of Palestine , and eradication of Zionist economic, political, military and cultural existence.
Article (19): Armed struggle is a strategy and not a tactic, and the Palestinian Arab People’s armed revolution is a decisive factor in the liberation fight and in uprooting the Zionist existence, and this struggle will not cease unless the Zionist state is demolished and Palestine is completely liberated.
Article (22): Opposing any political solution offered as an alternative to demolishing the Zionist occupation in Palestine, as well as any project intended to liquidate the Palestinian case or impose any international mandate on its people.
*****************
PPalestinian National Charter:
Article 7: … It is a national duty to bring up individual Palestinians in an Arab revolutionary manner … He must be prepared for the armed struggle and ready to sacrifice his wealth and his life in order to win back his homeland and bring about its liberation.
Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle…
Article 15: The liberation of Palestine , from an Arab viewpoint, is a national (qawmi) duty and it attempts to repel the Zionist and imperialist aggression against the Arab homeland, and aims at the elimination of Zionism in Palestine…
Article 19: The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time…
Article 20: The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine , and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.
Article 21: The Arab Palestinian people, expressing themselves by the armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine…
——-
So let’s see… the two more \”moderate\” elements in the Palestinian camp call for the eradication of Zionism and Israel, but Israel and the Jews are the ones who don’t want peace.
Oh yes, there’s a name for that: Anti-Semitism.
‘
Some One else
May 22, 2014 at 6:38 am
‘Semiteˈsiːmʌɪt,ˈsɛm-/noun: Semite; plural noun: Semitesa member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.’
Gary Selikow
May 22, 2014 at 7:58 am
‘Of course the victims of Arab terror and the Arab drive for genocide against Israel’s Jews go unremarked on
Israel has a right to exist, determine her own borders and defend herself as she sees fit and need apologize to no one for that
‘
Some One
May 23, 2014 at 2:32 pm
‘\”Some One else\” seeks to play semantics, by defining a narrow section of the term I used, and then forgets to provide the required citation.
So, for their information:
——-
an·ti–Sem·i·tism noun \\ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\\
: hatred of Jewish people
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
——
Sourced from Merriam-Webster on Fri, 23 May 2014 at:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/antisemitism‘
Thanks some-one else!
May 24, 2014 at 8:54 am
‘Correct, some-one else, and Semite and Zionist is not the same. Only very few Semites consider themselves Zionists, also among those living in Israel.’
Rav Shalom
May 28, 2014 at 8:24 am
‘Good article Mr Feinstein.
\n
\nThe Zionist project is in terminal failure.
\n
\nFailure to provide a secure Jewish homeland even after over 65 years of independence.
\n
\nThe essence of the dysfunction is Zionist disconnect with its Jewish roots and
\noriginal purpose to create a nation state for Jews to enable them to combat
\nanti-Semitism internationally.
\n
\nBoth as a safe haven physically and a platform internationally.
\n
\nNearly half a century of occupation, state violence and
\ncontinuing land grabs have resulted in a situation of permanent war and terror.
\n
\nThis, by any measure, is dysfunctional and unsustainable in the long term.
\n
\nZionism has failed the Jewish people and is an incubator for
\ngrowing anti-Semitism.
\n
\nWhat are the values subscribed to by the vitriolic commentators
\nand the larger SA Jewish community?
\n
\nDo we belive in Human Rights? In social justice? In Democracy?
\n
\n
\nIf we do then should we not work towards a democratic
\nIsrael?
\n
\nInstead of concentrating on the Palestinian’s failure to concede their homeland
\nto our control should we not rather condemn the State of Israel when it
\nroutinely transgressors international norms?
\n
\nI think – that as a community – we do hold these values but
\nbecause of the traumas of the past we cannot acknowledge when we – as Jews –
\nare the aggressors and perpetrators of violence.
\n
\nWe –almost instinctively – retreat to a defensive stance condemning all and
\nsundry as anti-Semites.
\n
\nBy so doing we devalue and dilute this serious and racist scourge.
\n
\nIt’s not our team vs the Rest.
\n
\nWe really need to consult our values, our humanity and our religion to be able
\nto counter and create a Jewish Homeland that synchronises justice with Zionist
\nideals.
\n
\nIf not then what is the value of Eretz Yisroel?
‘
Gary Selikow
May 28, 2014 at 12:33 pm
‘Of course ‘Rav Shalom’ you believe so strongly in peace and human rights you want to dismantle the only Jewish state in the world and have its Jews murdered or turned into destitute refugees.
Arabs have been attacking and killing Jews in Eretz Yisrael since before the 1920s long before any occupation
‘
Rav Shalom
May 28, 2014 at 2:39 pm
‘Why do these murderous Arabs kill Jews?
Just maybe because they felt threatened by the new settlers whose stated aim was to take over the land they had lived in for generations….and so it came to pass.
But I do not \” want to dismantle the only Jewish state in the world and have its Jews murdered or turned into destitute refugees.\”
This is your distorted interpretation and anlysis.
The same zero sum analysis that strangles any peace possibility.
Presumably you do not believe in peace or human rights and would rather subjugate others to your interests without any consideration for their humanity.
That is the only conclusion or suggestion you seem to offer.
Might = Right so therefore let us continue to arm and kill and be killed and live in fear of Iranian annihilation.
I feel there is a smarter, saner path to settlement.
But first we have to regain our humanity and our menschenkeit in general.
We need to acknowledge the rights and the suffering of others and craft a settlement with a growth path for both communities.
Arrogant blustering and military muscle are not sustainable strategies.
Ask yourself, Gary, how many more must die at the alter of an expansionist Zionist agenda.
Are you prepared to make the sacrifice?
And to what end?
The end of anti-Semitisim perhaps?
This will never end and the best defence is the age old example direct to you from our sages and from the Torah: Let us be a Light Unto The Nations.
Surely that is a higher aspiration than to be just another embattled Middel East state embroiled in never ending conflict ?
‘
Rav Shalom
May 29, 2014 at 8:07 am
‘I am a Jew.
As such I believe strongly in human rights and social justice.
As a Jew, Gary, so should you.
Our faith has been challenged over the ages by persecution, our existence by genocide.
We have suffered yet survived.
This does not give us special rights to perpetrate the same injustice upon others.
Our history, our DNA, should guide us to a path of wisdom and respect.
We must acknowledge Truth in all our dealings. For it is only from a platform of the utmost inegrity that we will be able to survive.
We now find ourselves as Masters of a subjegated people. Palestinians. They do not want us there.
They attack us and we surpress them.
We have the upper hand militarily.
This is the basis for Kathrada critique.
That our main response is to use force and surpression forgetting our responsibilities as Jews.
Can we not find the wisdom to craft a pathway for an enduring peace so that we can live with mutual repect so all can prosper?
And the begining of that road is an acknowledgment that the Land cannot be ours without equal rights and justice for all who live there. ‘
Some One
May 29, 2014 at 8:32 am
‘Ah, the wonders of the anonymous pixels on a screen. Any impostor (myself included!) can post anything they like.
So someone picks a Jewish-sounding name, employs phraseology that makes one think they are Jewish, and then suggests that the Jews calmly consent to once again falling victim to genocide.
So, Rav Shalom, you say: \”We –almost instinctively – retreat to a defensive stance condemning all and sundry as anti-Semites.\”
Please explain what part of \”eradication of Zionist cultural existence\” is not anti-Semitic?’
Rav Shalom
May 29, 2014 at 12:05 pm
‘Some One (and in fact Every One).
I suggest you reject the Fatah Constitution and the Palestinian National Charter to which you refer.
Stop believing in these charters. Include the Hamas principles in this as well.
Our Zionist mission should be to create a viable alternative that is not restricted to subjugation and a security state.
This is what Oslo was about and what Rabin’s project was attempting to start.
In other words a realistic, viable and sustainable future for Zionists and Palestinians.
This is what Kathrada et al achieved in their breakthrough negotiations with the Apartheid state.
Sadly all I read in this forum are knee-jerk defensive reactions.
The paradigm Palestinians = Enemy is identical to Zionists = Enemy as stated in the various Charters you quote.
All criticism of Israel is regarded as anti-Semetic.
Any concession to Palestinian self-determination is regarded as a capitulation to genocide.
I strongly reject this attitude and analysis as false and racist.
Why do we blindly buy this rhetoric?
What we – as Zionists and as Jews – are lacking is Vision.
We have not proposed a viable alternative to either Palestinians or ourselves.
We act and react and live and legislate and theorise only in the very short term.
We refer back instead of moving forward.
Would it not be more productive to create a discussion in an atmosphere conducive to solutions rather than the tired victim ideology so many here seem to profess?
‘
Gary Selikow
May 30, 2014 at 8:09 am
‘Until the Palestinians accept Israel is here to stay, there can be no peace agreement. they want all their demands met and yet refuse to recognize even Israel’s right to exist.
Why out of a massive landmass under Arab control , and a number of Arab states (today they number 22) it is regarded as such an injustice that a number of Arabs should be a minority in a Jewish State, where they enjoy full civil and political rights.
Jewish statelessness had led to the slaughter of 6 million Jews during the holocaust.
he meaning of Israel is clear. The Jew has experienced too much death, and a portion of the Jewish people decided that they would die quietly no more (especially after Hitler’s Holocaust). So it is: and no argument, no clever political talk, no logic and no parading of right and wrong can change this fact.The Jews returned to Israel because it was their ancient land. From 1810 onwards, Jews in the Land of Israel have been murdered by Arabs. The pious Jews of Safed, who would raise no hand in their defense, were robbed and murdered and burned out again and again by Arabs – as where the Jews in Jerusalem and Tiberias. Bedouin Arabs passed through Land of Israel at will-and robbed and killed Jews for profit. In the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, Arab feudal lords in the Land of Israel organized pogroms precisely as the Tsar had organized pogroms.
In 1920 Jews where massacred by Arabs in Jerusalem, in 1921 in Jaffa and in 1929 in Hebron. Thousands of Jews where murdered in 1936 to 1939 in the Nazi inspired Arab Revolt. Since 1948 Arabs have launched wars against Israel to try to drive Jews into the sea and since Arafat launched the latest war in 2000, after rejecting a peace deal, thousands of Jewish men women and children have died in Israel by bomb, bullet and knife. Jews will never again be put into a position where they can be subjected to another Holocaust (particularly in the ancient Jewish homeland).’
Rav Shalom
May 30, 2014 at 3:21 pm
‘Gary – I have no argument with your long list of atrocities.
Unfortunately the list is much longer than you enumerate – which I’m sure you know.
However the discussion here is about Kathrada’s support for the PLO and armed resistance.
And the larger issue of the situation today in Israel and Palestine.
Your diatribe fills me with despair.
All you see is a saga of hate and bloodshed perpetrated against our people.
You offer no vision of a future other than to internalise the hatred and fight and kill and be killed.
I do not share your pessimism.
I feel that if we – as a people – can offer a future of hope and prosperity to Palestinians we can find a solution.
We will have to drop many of our aspirations.
But the potential is worth it particularly in the drop in body count.
There is no Democracy in the occupied territories.
Palestinians lives are governed by a restrictive military authority.
Why should people accept that?
Palestinians were not responsible for the European Holocaust although I see you attempting to connect them in the reference ” Nazi inspired Arab Revolt”.
It is our duty to recognise their plight, their loss of land and their failed leadership.
It is in our interest to do so rather than succumb to arrogant triumphalism and simultaneous yet contradictory victimhood.
Let us try and see the world through their eyes and engineer a mutually acceptable future.
Their pain is as real as ours and this is what connects people like Kathrada to their struggle.
The Nationalists in SA finally understood that they could not maintain their suppressive regime.
They possessed the military might but understood that a future of a Security State was unsustainable.
They intelligently and strategically revoked their poisonous ideology in favour of democracy.
The Mandela’s and Kathrada’s were un-demonised, freed by their jailors and recognised as worthy political negotiators and capable mid-wives to the birth of as new SA.
Israel can do the same. But she needs encouragement and support of Jews internationally.
Instead what I read here is a focus on the negative.
They hate us and always will. We cannot find a partner for peace. We will never bow to our enemy.
The slightest acknowledgment of Israel’s culpability is drowned out by the baying for more blood and calls to shoot the messenger.
Israel cannot sustain the Occupation forever.
The longer this is maintained the lower the chance for an acceptable future.
Israeli society is becoming increasingly toxic and more intransigent.
Religious fundamentalism and racism are on the ascent.
As we denigrate the memory of the Holocaust as justification for our own behaviour and teach this to our children we move further from the promise of a Land Flowing with Milk and Honey.
So – Garelleh – try and become more integrated. Our history and legacy is so much more than a list of atrocities. Try and draw inspiration and perspective from our productive and creative forbearers rather than focussing only on the oppression and slaughter.
Maybe then you will be able to see a future illuminated by enlightenment rather than the darkness of death you so eagerly enunciate.’
Gary Selikow
June 1, 2014 at 6:08 am
‘Thank you, Rav Shalom, saying you want us to see the conflict through the eyes of the Palestinians says everything I need to know.
‘Religious fundamentalism and racism are on the ascent’
But when it comes to Hamas we should see things through ‘their eyes”
Gary Selikow
June 1, 2014 at 7:00 am
‘See it through the Palestinian’s eyes indeed? As if this is the only conflict in the world involving Muslims attacking other people. When Muslims attack , massacre and genocide Christians in Nigeria, Lebanon, Pakistan and Indonesia, Niolitic Blacks in Sudan and Darfur, Hindus in India and Buddhists in Burma, must we also see it through the eyes of the killers?
When the Muslims killed Drummer Lee Rigby on the streets of London or when they force thousands of girls into sexual slavery must we also see it through their eyes?
Should we see the Holocaust through the Nazis eyes.
No I will NOT see it through the eyes of the aggressor!’
Israeli
June 1, 2014 at 9:10 am
‘If the Palestinians had a \”Rav Shalom\” as a spokesman using similar language he would not be around for more than 24 hours.’
Rav Shalom
June 2, 2014 at 10:56 am
‘Injustice, indiscriminate slaughter, bigotry, racism, genocide, jihad.
This is the content of your commentary.
It appears you – and many others – are blinded by hatred unable to get beyond the pain to begin to see possible solutions.
The narrative of death is endless – hunt and/or be hunted. Kill and/or be killed.
In the end no one benefits and all must die.
Can you not see anything else?
Can you not summon a more constructive or productive paradigm?
Have we not progressed enough and suffered enough as a society to be able to replace conflict with peace and productivity?
If your only perspective is of a world of aggressors then your only choice is to become the same.
I prefer to envisage a future of positive possibility.
Denying the humanity of the “other” leads to further (endless) bloodletting.
Acknowledging injustice does not justify terrorism or atrocities past or present.
It is the first brave step towards mutual respect and understanding.
The first step towards creating a workable solution.
The legacy of the Shoah is to never forget so that it cannot happen again.
Not to actively create circumstances whereby it remains a possibility.
‘
jack shnaier
June 2, 2014 at 11:29 pm
‘I do not hide behind an anonymous name. The way the articles are written by Rav Shalom it sounds like a person who had a Jewish mother,who lost his faith in the Jewish religion,because he did not study Torah Judaism,he found solace in another Jewish born,_ Karl Marx .He joined the ANC became a leader ,helped in the revolution ,became a minister in the government,fell out of favour with the President,and is now trying to equate the African renaissance,with ARAB MUSLIM IMPERIALISM,’
Rav Shalom
June 3, 2014 at 8:33 am
‘Thank you for reading my overlong responses.
But – Haver Jack – perhaps it is more productive to respond to the content rather than fantasize as to the character of the illusory Rav.
\”Israeli\” has a more relevant response. I agree with his/her pithy yet accurate comment.
However \”Israeli\” look at what is happening to the Palestinian political leadership today and the significant re-alignment of their positions.
Hamas and Fatah recognising current realities, showing leadership and becoming pragmatic.
The Israeli Govt. attitude? Unfortunately devoid of any visible creative response. No Vision.
\”As has been his (Netanyahu) pattern throughout the last five years, he is merely reacting to Palestinian moves, and thereby putting Israel’s fate into Abbas’ hands.\” (Barak Ravid –Haaretz 3/6/14)
So our discussion goes full circle yet again.
Nothing constructive from the commentariat. Only personal attacks and half-baked historical diatribes.
I bid you all a Chag Sameach and a request to consider the significance of the Chag.
The acceptance of the Law by Israel on behalf of all humanity.
And the underlying system of ethics and justice this represents.
‘
Ariel Ziv
July 8, 2014 at 6:05 am
‘Response to the Kathrada foundation and Andrew Feinstein
\n
\nSince both the Kathrada Foundation and Andrew Feinstein responded to my
\nopen letter to Ahmed Kathrada here and here, I am responding with a letter
\ninstead of commenting on both responses.
\n
\nBoth responses are more reminiscent of character testimonies before
\nsentencing in a court of law than valid defense for the crime itself. The
\nresponses will serve as outstanding examples of cognitive dissonance as well as
\ndeceitful smokescreen tactics.
\n
\nFeinstein’s response claimed \”confused and contradictory
\nthinking\”, yet this claim was not substantiated, most likely because it
\ncould not be substantiated. Apart from the \”confused and
\ncontradictory\” first sentence which might have been remotely relevant, the
\nrest of Feinstein’s response is filled with superlatives about Kathrada’s
\nintegrity and humility and irrelevant quotes which in fact prove just the
\nopposite of what Feinstein was trying to convey.
\n
\nKathrada openly and unambiguously expressed his \”whole hearted\”
\nsupport for Palestinian terror against Israelis, even when re-prompted by the
\ninterviewer. Mr. Feinstein. With the latter in mind, you will find Irena
\nKlepfisz’s words completely self-defeating. You may regard Kathrada as a man of
\nremarkable humility and integrity, but the only remarkable things are:
\nKathrada’s condoning of terror against Israelis and your lame attempt to
\nsidestep the terror issue by producing Kathrada’s curriculum vitae. There is no
\nintegrity in that; not for Kathrada and neither for you. Public figures destroy
\ntheir credentials, with one statement, with one tweet and one slip in revealing
\nhidden agenda. Kathrada has done the same, sorry.
\n
\n The Kathrada Foundation’s response adds insult to injury, or rather, to
\nterror. The Foundation’s reaction to pose the question whether Kathrada’s
\nthoughts and emotions after visiting Auschwitz can be Antisemitic, is a
\npathetic attempt to divert attention from the issue at hand.
\n
\nThis is how cognitive dissonance works: the BBC interview is a reminder for
\nthe Kathrada Foundation, and for the benefit of the readers:
\n
\n Kathrada: “My own view is I keep on
\nsupporting the Palestinian struggle once they have decided on the…Palestinian
\nleaders have decided….this is the road we’ll take, I support them.”
\n
\n
\n
\nMontague: “Even if that route involves
\nviolence?”
\n
\nKathrada: “But I’m not going to prescribe to
\nthem what they should…”
\n
\nMontague: “Is their use…is their use of
\nviolence justified?”
\n
\nKathrada: “If, under the circ…that’s not for
\nme to say. But if they, in their wisdom, resort to violence as the only method,
\nI’ll support them. I’ve been to Palestine. I have seen what is like. Is the
\nonly colony in the world today; a colony of Israel. We have seen – I have seen
\nin Palestine what didn’t exist under apartheid in the worst days of
\napartheid.”
\n
\nMontague: “So your support is unconditional?”
\n
\nKathrada: “My support is whole-hearted. I
\ntake my cue from what they do. I don’t prescribe to them. So far there is no
\nreason for me to criticize the Palestinian leadership.”
\n
\nFaced with A, the Foundation responds with B. My letter explicitly
\nstated in the first sentence that the above trashes every niche of
\nhumanitarianism, yet the Foundation’s response goes on to glorify Kathrada’s
\npast activism. Presenting the man’s laurels is character witness but would not
\nhold water against the crime of justifying terror or supporting it.
\n
\n I find no record of Kathrada justifying terror from the Basque, IRA,
\nTamil Tiger, Chechnyan, Moaist, Abu Sayyaf, Ansar al-Islam movements, and
\nperhaps Kathrada should be asked. What is very clear, is that Kathrada
\nwholeheartedly supports terror against Israelis. If this is not prejudice, what
\nis?
\n
\nYes, discrimination exists in Israel as it does worldwide, yet Israel
\nleads the international arena in rights for minority groups and is one of the
\ncountries with the highest number of human rights NGO’s and organizations pro
\nrata. Coupled with Israel’s highly revered justice system, both Kathrada’s
\naccusation that 5,000 Palestinian prisoners do not receive basic rights and the
\ninsinuation that all 5,000 are political prisoners is a slap in the face of
\njustice and baseless propaganda (Al-Jazeera).
\nPresentation of Kathrada’s Auschwitz visit is a transparent half-truth attempt
\nto show balance, especially when Kathrada conveniently fails to mention
\nPalestinian aspirations to eradicate the Jews, as seen in both the PLO and
\nHamas current day charters.
\n
\n Since Palestinian terror targets Jews and Kathrada whole heartedly
\nsupports it, there is no getting around the Antisemitic stench. No matter how
\nmany Jewish friends Kathrada has, no matter his impressions from Auschwitz and
\nno matter how softly he whispers this, it shines through.
\n
\nAhmed Kathrada is a man of remarkable humility and integrity…who supports
\nterror against Jews.
\n
\n \”You killed her! You shot and killed
\nher! Won’t you take responsibility for that?\” – Gerrie Nel
\n
\n
\n
\n
\n
‘