Letters/Discussion Forums
Orthodox Judaism is the only true reflection of Jewish religion
Eli Knight
And if they do know, then that’s by “waylaying” others – they are sentencing themselves to Gehinnom. No-one has yet challenged this assertion directly.
We keep the same Torah as the Avot, handed down from Moshe to the Babylonian Talmud Rishonim etc., to the present day, all writings of such calibre that they must have had Divine assistance. These are all writings which Reform has rejected. Separate seating was started by Yitzchok.
My logical father z”ll, describing his search for Judaism and trying Reform as well as Orthodox, likened Reform to a manmade pond with no depth where the décor could be changed at will – you just need to find a minister and pay him enough to redecorate/justify everything you want to do.
Real Judaism, on the other hand, is like a vast deep ocean and the more we search, the deeper we realise it is. But you have to go into it on its terms: you can’t make up the terms. If you do, your children will make up different terms based on their sentiments and feelings and attitudes of the times and then intermarry – like we see happening in Reform today.
To be Orthodox takes a lot of work; there is always “growing” to be done and difficult concepts to face, some of which may take a lifetime to understand and others so deep that we have to say they are G-d-given and we will never understand them.
My father also warned that they will do or say anything to keep their conveniences and be able to call themselves Jews without having to do the obligations a Jew has to do – just a little bit of kindness and a bit of mixed prayer to keep the conscience at bay with a feast or two in between and maybe a fast once a year.
The title “rabbi” has to do with being suitably qualified and being a link in the chain from Moshe through to today, with many holy nodes along the way that require years of hard study. This is just the beginning, because a genuine Orthodox rabbi will study for life.
It has got to do with keeping the chain of knowledge painstakingly preserved through all the persecutions.
To Jantjies: Warning someone that he is on a path to Gehinnom is not hatred; is it hatred to warn someone that he shouldn’t drive drunk or with a flat tyre? It is love and concern.
The Orthodox world is generally united (with different sections) like different units in an army, while the defectors – that is Reform – are falling apart as a result of intermarriage. Is it hatred to warn someone that if he chooses Reform he will not have many Jewish grandchildren?
If Reform priests are called rabbis, people soon will argue that a rabbi is a rabbi and we will have the same kind of intermarriage disaster as in the US.
Johannesburg
This letter has been shortened. – Editor
Monica Solomon
February 11, 2016 at 12:15 pm
‘That the SA Jewish Report endorses this hate speech by publishing it is beyond my understanding. What upsets me even more is that you saw fit not to publish my letter last week detailing the study that Progressive rabbis do in order to obtain simcha. ‘
Jp
February 11, 2016 at 1:56 pm
‘Thank you for giving me simcha 🙂
Monica obviously meant Smicha – but as hard as you try… well you just proved my point did’nt you?!
Reform is unable to confer Traditional Judaism Torah smicha.
It’s laughable that Reform considers itself a form of Judaism and worthy to confer the title Rabbi on it’s religious ministers.
Admit it – Reform is a new religion.
Noahides are more a part of Judaism than Reform… in fact some members of Reform may be considered observant Noahides – they I have no problem with, but for Reform to claim the mantle of Judaism – sorry but that is simply not true and deceptive to innocent and genuine seekers of the Jewish Tradition of Torah.
‘
Michael Echakowitz
February 11, 2016 at 2:03 pm
‘I am not going to wax lyrical and quote passages from any books of learning (Judaic or other).
It is time that people like you start looking to yourselves and your personal view that you continually try to force on others.
Who are you, or anyone else for that matter, to try and convert others to your way of thinking by advocating that your way is the right way and the only way.
It is this type of thought process that is corrupting the true meaning of all religion and is no different to a priest trying to convert people to Catholicism, or an Iman converting people to become Muslims.
It is this perversion that you attempt to force on others that is causing people of all religions to turn away.
Whether I pray in a Synagogue, in Church, or in a Mosque does not make me a better Jew, Christian or Muslim – The fact that I pray with sincerity is what makes me good, and has nothing to do with religion.
Wake up and smell the roses, just because you are an observant Orthodox Jew does not make you any better than anyone else.
Every person who believes in a Deity (Be it G-d, Allah or Jesus Christ) is just as good in their own eyes.
Get off your high horse and actually practice what Judaism stands for – TO BE A MENSCH
If you and those of the same hypocritical, self centered, self serving and mindless views, can actually live by what religion teaches, then the world will be a much better place.’
Rabbi Adrian M Schell
February 11, 2016 at 2:45 pm
‘As Moses is about to climb Mount Sinai to receive the Decalogue, the Israelites gather at the base of the mountain, and affirm their commitment to fulfilling God’s commandments. I like to think of the Torah as Ancient Israel’s mission statement. God and Moses both knew the Children of Israel needed a document that stated the purpose of the people, and pointed them towards their destiny. It had to be a statement broad enough to encompass a variety of interpretations, yet compelling enough to be shared by everyone. The variety of opinions concerning the Torah today testifies to the sheer power and success of this most influential document. The Torah formed the Israelite people: a disparate people with competing agendas, into a unified nation with a shared purpose.
Having a shared purpose defines community. For us
Progressive Jews, it is our bond with the Jewish tradition and all Jews, and our understanding that all humans are equal, regardless of race, gender identity, age, disability, national origin, and sexual orientation. Our goal is to make this world a better place – step by step, and I am sure that we share this with most Jews all over the world.
But reality proves that not everyone is sharing those values with us, and too often these others are fellow Jews. Last week’s Jewish Report contains again one of those hurtful examples in which the respect we offer to others, is rudely rejected. Vilifying Progressive Rabbis as “uneducated” and accusing us of destroying the Jewish people is outrageous, because it destroys the idea of Klal Israel, one Jewish people. It uses the same methods anti-Semites use in their approach to de-legitimise Israel as an unworthy state. But as much as the anti-Semites are wrong in making Jews second class humans, the author of this statement in the JR is wrong in his approach to make Progressive Jews second class Jews. With his hate-speech, he is leaving behind the common ground our ancestors once created by accepting the Torah.
Rabbi Adrian M Schell
Bet David, Morningside
(www.betdavid.org.za)
‘
Madeleine Hicklin
February 11, 2016 at 3:28 pm
‘It constantly amazes me that anti-Reform Hate Speech can fall effortlessly from the lips of the so-called Religious Jews in this country – and be repeated by the SA Jewish Report. You are quick to condemn Anti-semitic hate speech from the ANC or the EFF. Have you looked in the mirror? Your hate speech is even more damaging than that of non-Jews. It’s a self hatred I find intolerable and terribly, terrible sad. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Hashem gave the Torah to KLAL YISRAEL – not your select few. This is Lashon Hara at its worst’
Rabbi Julia Margolis
February 11, 2016 at 3:37 pm
‘Dear Reader
My first response
to the article “Orthodox
Judaism” is the only true reflection of Jewish religion by Eli Knight, is to the JR Editorial staff. Journalism 101 requires that you ask for a response
from \”the other side\” so as to encourage a balanced perspective for your readers. My colleagues and I have not been graced with such a request,
though if our responses are published, that may go some way in a levelling of
the playing fields.
The author sets out his article from start to finish, from what can only be described as a \”holier than Thou\” perspective. First seeking to demean
and then belittle myself, and my colleagues, by incorrectly referring to us as \”priests,\” and while offence is intended, none is actually taken.
This as from our perspective we (human beings) are ALL equal in the eyes of G-d, from a spiritual perspective, none of us are orphaned – we are ALL
children of G-d. I look upon a priest, with a same respect as I do a Rabbi.
The author then moves on in the same tone by in essence referring to all reform Jews as \”second class citizens,\” the \”real\” or orthodox Jews, being the ones of great depth, the ones who work hard and do not make a mess of this world etc.
If the author had the ability to be still for a moment, to turn his gaze inward and contemplate on the matter for long enough, he would soon realise that the
gist of what he is espousing, is no different at all – in point of fact, is precisely the “thinking” of the fuhrer, his holier than Thou perspective of himself, and \”his people,\” relative to all other communities, nations
and people existing on the same planet as him.
In no way shape or form do I speak from an \”anti\” perspective, my speaking is done to encourage thought, deep thought – this is the way I was
raised as a child, and taught as a Reform Rabbi. I lived the vast majority of my life in Jerusalem, served as an officer in the IDF, my Mother is a Rabbi, her
parents and grand parents were killed in the Holocaust (a tragic memory, like many others in MY community.) How, I ask you, does the author claim to be \”more Jewish\” than I am?
Rabbi Julia
Margolis
Chairman
SACRED
‘
David Blend
February 11, 2016 at 11:28 pm
‘Love your jaundiced, puritanical view of my – our faith. Maybe you should open your eyes
\nto the big wide world – often called the ‘globe’. I find it amazing that you
\ncan take such a narrow and obviously divisive and absurd view of my religion (yours too )but maybe you are too narrow minded to see that.
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\nIt is alsovery sad to believe that there are still Jewish ( mainly men I believe) who are bigoted and disdainful of other Jews with differing opinions on following their own faith. What a pity that you cannot , or will rather not channel your energy against the supporters of the Jihadi’s rather than your own.’
Philip Rosenberg
February 12, 2016 at 4:28 am
‘Dear Editor
After trudging through your poorly written editorial comment, I had a chuckle. Your descriptions sound exactly like 90% of Orthodox congregants in this country.
Here’s a clue – stop looking for new ways to hate your fellow Jew. The rest of the world does an adequate job of it, and doesn’t need your fumbling, self-hating commentary.
If you don’t like Reform Shuls – don’t attend them. And do us all a favor and write something meaningful and uplifting next time. As a leader in the community we look to you to guide us towards becoming the best versions of ourselves.
If this is an advert to Reform Jews to leave their sinful ways and jump into the vast, deep ocean of Orthodoxy, you are doing a bad job.
I look forward to your next editorial comment where you put some time and research into saying something useful.
If you want to save \”reform\” Jews, save us from having to read this low level rubbish. It would be a real Mitzvah.
Philip’
Gh001
February 12, 2016 at 5:59 am
‘Holy bul***it…. Shame for the whole Judaism to communicate personal thoughts like this.’
Simeon
February 12, 2016 at 6:22 am
‘*smicha LOL (but explains a lot)’
Myron Robinson
February 12, 2016 at 11:18 am
‘Eli Knight (and Choni Davidowitz in his earlier article) have done more to encourage anti-Semitism in RSA than most anti-semites. What makes a Reform/Conservative Jew less jewish than a secular Jew who may be orthodox but not Shomre Shabbat. Bar Kochba was correct when he said to one of the Roman Generals \”Why do you try and kill us. If you leave us Jews alone we will kill ourselves\”. I am sure that Eli Knight and Choni Davidowitz will be the first in the front line when the call comes to fight for Israel or will they hide behind their Rabbinical/Religious status not to go to the front.’
Ohr
February 12, 2016 at 2:00 pm
‘This article contradicts the words of the prophets who had warned the Jewish People against hardening of the heart. It also divides the already vulnerable South African Jewish community by putting brother against brother. These declarations against the progressive movement are a sign of its relevance and the strength of its stance on the uncompromising pursuit of justice. ‘
J
February 12, 2016 at 2:41 pm
‘Eli Knight you are clearly pro-assimilation and the end of Jewry as we know it. Such conservative ideas such as these, that are also being taught at King David schools, are possibly the biggest contributor to young Jews assimilating within South African Jewry today. This type of bigotry is antithetical to what it means to be a real Jew. You set a poor example for future generations. tisk tisk fella.’
Baruch Batzofin
February 12, 2016 at 5:08 pm
‘Whether or not reform/progressive/conservative Judaism are right is irrelevant to the argument that they are not Judaism. The reform movement was the breakaway and they consciously decided to reject that which traditional Judaism holds as fundamental and defining to Judaism. So it is perfectly legitimate to claim you are right (a sort of replacement theory) but you can’t demand of Orthodox Judaism to afford you legitimacy. When you (as a movement) chose to leave the traditional and to reject normative practice of the last two thousand years you created a division. When Orthodox Jews refuse to acknowledge your religion as a form of Judaism it is not hatred or hate speech – that is absurd – it is staying on the side of the divide you created.
Eli: You are mistaken. The reason Orthodox Jews generally do not refer to reform clergy as Rabbi is not because they don’t have smicha. Orthodox Rabbis don’t have smicha either. Other than a singular and unsuccessful attempt by Rav Yosef Karo to reintroduce smicha, no one has had real smicha since the time of the Mishna around 2 thousand years ago. And whilst today to get Orthodox ordination (what we mistakenly call smicha) you have to study for many years and in great detail, it could be argued that those in institutions such as JTS and HUC study no less. Rather, the reason Orthodoxy does not call them Rabbis is because that would be an implicit acknowledgment of their being a type of Judaism – which, from an Orthodox point of view, they are not. They could study all of shas and shulchan aruch – if they translate that into reform, then we don’t call them Rabbi. And again, this is not hatred. We can say, that’s not Judaism but we still love you. In fact every conflict I have seen between Orthodox and reform has been when reform has demanded recognition from Orthodox. Orthodox does not proselytize to reform – we generally just ignore them.
Importantly many in the Reform movement are Jews. And those that are not (halachically) believe themselves to be. And so as long as they do not try to influence how Orthodox Judaism is practiced they should be treated with respect and love as should all Jews and human being not trying to harm us.
‘
Rabbi Ruth Adar
February 12, 2016 at 7:35 pm
‘Chazal teaches us that the second Temple was destroyed because of sinat chinom, baseless hatred. We should have learned our lesson, but we apparently have not.
I am sure that when the Tannaim were figuring out how to survive the destruction of the Temple, there were voices around them who said, \”Oh, no, there’s only one way to do things (our way!) and if you touch anything, it will be the end of Judaism!\” Instead they brought tremendous creativity and scholarship to bear, and Rabbinic Judaism emerged. They were men of their time, men living in history, and they disagreed about many things but managed to treat one another with respect.
Jews throughout history have adapted to time and place and circumstance. How else can one explain the differences between Sephardim and Ashkenazim?
Let go of the sinat chinom. It never comes to good. If any branch of Judaism is truly mistaken, it will disappear like the Essenes and the Karaites and the people whose names we don’t even know. But there is no need for this hatred.’
Karen
February 13, 2016 at 12:31 am
‘A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. One born of a Jewish mother, or a Jew by choice, no matter how he or she chooses to interpret Judaism, is Jewish, whether intolerant Orthodox Jews like it or not.
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\nChoosing Reform Judaism has made me a better Jew than most so – called Orthodox Jews, who, to my thinking have ‘reformed’ their brand of Judaism, anyway. I have encountered Orthodox Jews who are never seen in Shuls on Shabbat, who eat in non – kosher restaurants, who drive and write and use their cell phones on Shabbat, and who become pious on over the High Holy days, and who claim to be ‘traditional’ Ha!
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\nSo, here I am, a Jewish woman, born of two Jewish parents, granddaughter of grandparents who escaped the Holocaust, and great – granddaughter of those who perished in the Shoa. You will find me in Shul every Friday night, welcoming in the Shabbat bride, and every Shabbat morning. I listen to exactly the same Torah portion as my fellow Orthodox Jews. How it is interpreted can be up to any amount of rabbis. How I interpret each parsha, is my G-d given choice. It does not me wrong or better or worse than any other Jew. I light my Shabbat candles every week, we make motzie, we eat together as a family. Our Judaism is alive and vibrant and real. We are proud Jews, we are supporters of Israel, regardless of which stripe of Jew our money aids.
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\nYes, I had an adult Bat Mitzvah at age 55. I spent two years studying and learning. I helped conduct the service and, yes, I read from the Torah. it was the most beautiful and empowering experience of my life. It made me feel closer to G-d and equal to all of humankind.
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\nI do good mitzvoth. I believe in Tikkun Olam , saving the world. I respect ALL people, regardless of their colour, creed or kind, and in turn , I hope that I will be respected for being the kind of Jew I have chosen to be. I am not better than any other Jew, or any other person on this earth, but I am doing what feels right and meaningful for my spiritual needs.
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\nI belong to a warm and caring and vibrant and growing congregation. My Rabbi is one of the smartest people I have met. My cantor is a woman with the voice of an angel and the music I sing to lifts my soul. I educate myself further about Judaism and other faiths through the ongoing and ever evolving education programs at my Shul.
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\nMy Judaism is a modern, ever changing one, which takes into account the world in which I am living now. I am not stuck in the last century, or the one before that. I celebrate all the chagim joyously and spiritually
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\nMy children are Jewish. I believe that they are good people and good Jews. I also believe that those you do marry out of the faith, and then bring their children up as Jews, are blessed to have Reform Judaism to allow them to do so. We gain good Jews this way, rather than losing them altogether, as happens in Orthodoxy, and yes, it happens more often than you might realize. I embrace diversity in my congregation – everyone is always welcome and included, regardless of sexuality, race or religion of origin. No one is made to feel like a pariah; we all belong, we all participate in meaningful, beautiful and inspiring services every week. We pray together as one and for all.
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\nLet’s put an end to this anti Reform vitriol. Jews are such a small group in the world. We need to be united and strong, to accept our differences and our similarities, to realize that different interpretations of Judaism are just that, but that we all pray to the same G-d and read from the same Torah, wherever in the world we may be, and whatever form of Judaism we believe is the right kind for each of us.
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\nA Jew is a Jew is a Jew, and a Jew should always be tolerant, especially of their own.’
Monica Solomon
February 15, 2016 at 6:40 am
‘Mr Knight – your assertion regarding the education and knowledge of our Rabbis was indeed challenged but not published because, according to the editor, it “got lost in the fray”.
All our Rabbis, worldwide, have to learn Torah (written and oral), Talmud, as well as traditional and modern interpretations of Halacha. This study is done at one of the seven Rabbinical seminaries situated in Israel, the United States, the United Kingdom and Europe. Most students spend at least 1 year of the (minimum) 5 year course at a Yeshiva in Israel. All courses are at university level and a Masters degree is a requirement. Only then can s’micha be obtained.
If you and Mr Zagnoev think that Progressive Jews do not engage in study and debate of Torah, Talmud and responsa you are uninformed. If you think that Orthodox Jews do not marry “out” you are naïve. If either of you have ever walked, on Shabbas, down Joseph Street in Highlands North, or past Lions, Waverley, Great Park or Greenside Shuls (to name but a few) you would know that many Orthodox members drive to and from Shul on Shabbat. If the stereotype of a religious Jew is a young couple pushing a pram then we Progressive Jews are as religious as any Orthodox Jew. We too push our prams! Mr Zagnoev please enlighten me which Progressive Synagogue you have visited that justifies your assertion that our Shuls resemble churches. Without fear of contradiction I can tell you that the Great Synagogue in Florence resembles a mosque – does that make Orthodox Jews in Florence Muslims? I think not!
Messrs. Knight and Zagnoev – your hate speech (for it is just that) deserves condemnation. The late Chief Orthodox Rabbi Harris z’l would, from what I knew of him, have censured you. The current holder of this position, by his silence, seems to condone it. How very sad.
Monica Solomon
‘
Karen
February 16, 2016 at 12:55 am
‘I need to add that I am an ex South African, now Canadian Reform Jew. I chose Reform Judaism at age 8, when I noticed the women in Orthodox shuls being ignored by the Rabbi downstairs banging on the lectern for silence. Even at that tender age, I felt excluded and spiritually vacant. Reform Judaism filled all my spiritual and communal needs early in my life, and without that I am sure I would have given up on Judaism altogether.
What really concerns me, is just how intolerant South African Orthodox Jews are of anyone who is not ‘them\”. When did Jews turn into such awful people? In a country with a history of bloodshed based on not treating everyone equally? I am ashamed that my own people behave in such a disgusting manner. This is not what Judaism is about.’
chinedu jack
April 26, 2018 at 12:03 am
‘I love judaism’