Letters/Discussion Forums
Sorry, Choni, not today or any other day
STAFF REPORTER
In response to a letter by Dr Mark Potterton, a school headmaster who feels that the community response to Josh Broomberg has been VICIOUS & DISPROPORTIONATE, user Jonathan Kaplan offered his full support for Potterton’s position.
User Choni Davidowitz, however, did not. “The biblical Joshuah was given the command to banish all the Ishmaelites from Israel. (Num.33;50-55). Pity that ‘your’ Joshuah wants to give them ‘their own state’,” commented Choni. “No amount of disgust can be expressed against someone like Josh who supports an adversary…” the remainder of Choni’s comment was removed and the following inserted: [comment removed as we do not have knowledge of his support for Hamas – please substantiate and we will reconsider -ED].
Choni did not “substantiate” and responded thus: “So wearing an Arab scarf, and a Palestinian badge during a war (against Hamas) is not showing support for hamas?” wrote Choni. “Come on Mr Editor, print the rest of my comment. When millions of Germans wore swastikas on their sleeves, who were they showing support for – the Jews?”
The legal situation, once again, is…
Online Editor Ant Katz responded to Choni as follows:
We most certainly will not publish your illegal statements! When you refer to a sub-group like Hamas who have a constitution that states something, you are allowed to say so. But when you apply that which belongs to Hamas to all Palestinians, Arabs or Muslims, it becomes hate speech, under both SA and Israeli law.
Are you suggesting we allow you to use illegal hate speech on this website? For which both you and we could be criminally charged? Do you think we should allow anti-Israel commentators to make statements against all Jews? Would you support our allowing anti-Semitic comments on this website?
Over many years now this has been pointed out to you. You can try as you might, but neither your attempts, nor those of others, to illegally enjoin complete races or religions to the madness of the few will be allowed. We cannot and will not do it. We support the anti-hate-speech laws as a matter of course. We agree with them. They protect Jews from anti-Semites and stop you creating chaos for Jews. One wonders what other users think. Have your say… –online.editor@sajr.co.za
Join this conversation…
…Or any of the others. What do other users think? Read DR MARK POTTERTON’S LETTER, the responses, and have your say.
See all the latest issues that users are chatting about: FOLLOW THE LATEST CHIRPS.
Brian
August 29, 2014 at 1:32 pm
‘Who cares? What a weak and transparent attempt at getting \”discussion\” and visits to this site. Storm in a teacup I tell you.’
Choni
August 29, 2014 at 2:22 pm
‘Thanks for this response Ant. Come on readers . What are your views on this matter.’
Harry Friedland
August 30, 2014 at 3:06 am
‘Does anyone remember Judge Goldstein? (Oh, sure you do!) – Is Josh Broomberg now in the same rubbish bin as the Judge?
Voltaire said, \”I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.\”
Over the years I have watched with concern the rise of the ranting right in SA Judaism. Academic studies have recorded it – it is not just a subjective impression, it is an objective fact. There is absolutely no point in lamenting \”the good old days\” when SA Muslims and Jews lived in peace with each other, when today we are running as fast as we can in the opposite direction. The fact that they are doing that, and that our Palestinians are more Palestinian than the Palestinian Palestinians, does not justify us doing the same thing. We are Jews. We should know better. What values do we have that are worth defending if we just follow that wild mob?
So Josh and the Judge behaved in what many thought to be an ill-judged manner. Unfortunately, sometimes intelligent, thoughtful and educated people do come to some strange conclusions. But I have listened to a lot (and there are A LOT) of their detractors and many of them are running on pure emotion – not a shred of rational argument in what they say.
Locking people out of shuls, throwing them out of schools – that’s sheer hysteria. All it means is that you do not have the intellect to deal with them in a rational and civilised manner.
What has become of us?
‘
Choni
August 30, 2014 at 4:29 pm
‘\”But when you (myself) apply that which belongs to Hamas to all Palestinians it becomes hate speech…
Well Mr. Editor it is no I who makes this observation.
Read what M.K. Zoabi, Basel Ghattas and Jamal Zahalka said at a ‘victory rally’last Friday. \”We are all part of the Palestinian people (also present was the leader of the Islamic movement in Iarsel and convicted terrorist Sheikh Ra Safah as well as many pro Hamas officials) Palestinian people and the Palestinian resistance in Gaza which faced all Israeli targets both military and political.
We cannot separate from the resistance (Remember she represents Israeli arabs) of Hamas Palestinians.
Zoabi has been linked to Hamas on multiple occasions, and is infamous for provocative speeches, including one in which she said that Israel has no right to a normal life.
As a member of the Knesset she has often encouraged Hamas on the terror groups website.
So, Ant, I really think that there is enough evidence to link Hamas with ‘all’ Palestinians. (which of course are Arab Muslims.)’
david
September 1, 2014 at 9:16 am
‘@Choni — you seem to be on a ‘High Horse’ blaming all Palestinians for the beliefs and constitution of Hamas.
Either way , hate speech is what they use — too low for us , however tempting it may be. Their community is the same as us — some for hate, and some, more understanding of the problems of society, to not tar the whole nation with the same brush. Believe it or not , there are many peace loving Arabs as well as Israelis and Jews. (There is of course a difference between a Jew and Israeli’s in exile )
Josh was way out of step with the feelings of the community as whole, even though he was childish enough to believe that he had the right to use his position and the school platform, to advertise his personal naïve belief.
However , you are on the other side of the pendulum expecting to use this platform for naïve, extreme and virulent beliefs .
Too much torment and vitriol from all sides, without the acceptance, that we all blessed with a brain, and most of us, are fortunate to have been educated to use it.
We are lucky to live in a world which, via levels of democracy, allow us to publish and state our beliefs.
However, too many on the other side express their venom and hatred towards us and we do ourselves a dis-service to descend to the same level ‘
Choni Davidowitz
September 2, 2014 at 9:17 am
‘Harry Friedman asks what has become of us.
\nIndeed Harry, What has become of us? Has this generation of Jews gone completely soft?
\nI am sure that you and the vast majority of Jews in S.Africa were not around at the time of WW2 and the unspeakable horrors that befell our people in that period.
\nLet us juxtapose those times to the present situation in our only Jewish state, which did not exist at that time.
\nNo one can deny the obvious similarities that exist then and now. In both cases the Jewish people were confronted by adversaries who were determined to kill as many Jews as possible, by whatever means possible.
\nHitler succeeded in his mission mainly because there was little or no opposition to his murderous plans.
\nFor certain Hamas [Edited, hate speech -ED] would like to carry out their plans of annihilation of Jews with equal fervour if allowed to. To a certain extent they too have succeeded in carrying out a new slow Shoah in Israel whenever the opportunity arose. Many thousands of Jewish men woman and children, and even infants, have been brutally murdered and maimed in thousands of terrorist attacks over the past 66 years.
\nNow imagine if in S.Africa, who fought with the Allies in the war against Germany,some young Jewish schoolboys got together in a public forum, or a whole lot of Jews placed an advert in the local press, strongly condemning the Allied bombing of Dresden in which hundreds of thousands of ‘innocent’ German men woman and children perished.
\nImagine (in your worst nightmare) if young Jewish boys anywhere in the world showed themselves wearing swastikas on their sleeves in solidarity with the Nazis (Hamas?)
\nThink for a moment. Is there any difference between Hamas/Palestinians now , and the Nazis during WW2.
\n
\nNo, Mr Friedman, I say again \”has this generation of Jews gone completely mad.
\nWorse still. Their attitude of understanding people like Josh Broomberg is condoned by not only academics, but also the orthodox Rabbinate.
‘
Choni
September 2, 2014 at 1:01 pm
‘David, Please read my comments 4 and 6.
Also please point out my vitriolic hate speech in order for me to answer your criticism.
’